Monday, May 2, 2011

Life -- and Death.

Conspiracy theorists: On your marks -- ready, set, GO!


This is one of those instances where I feel I have to address the news of the day -- and yet, just about everything I might want to say has been said.


Al-zawahiri. Did you just feel that target get etched on your forehead?


I'm not sure dancing on the grave is the right response. Oh, hell with it. Dance away.

But it shows, we're no different.


Burial at sea?

Like I said; conspiracies, ready, set, go.


On T.V. just now, Obama is giving to Medals of Honor. Covered by all the cable news.

Bully pulpit, folks.


Ah, the gnashing of teeth on Fox. Trying to spin blame onto Pakistan -- but unfortunately for them, all the other networks were saying the same thing.

They just couldn't spin it.

You can just feel their dilemma. They want to patriotically celebrate, but they are afraid of giving Obama too much credit. So they act like pikers.

Bad show.


Is Obama really good? Or just lucky?

First he brings out his birth certificate, followed by the Correspondent's dinner where he makes fun of Trump, then he pre-empts The Apprentice last night.

First he announces the elimination of Bin-Laden, then the next day awards Medals of Honor in a patriotic ceremony covered by all the networks.

I guarantee that as soon as the glow wears off, he'll be accused of "timing" it.


I think the way it works is:

Reagan's failure, due to Carter.

G.H.Bush's successes, due to Reagan. Opps.

Clintin's successes due to Reagan.

Bush's failures, due to Clinton.

Obama's successes, due to Bush.


I wasted two hours watching the celebrations. I'm pretty sure there was a cheerleading squad popping cute girls onto shoulders; and I wondered where the booze was coming from.


Why am I not more satisfied? Yes, I'm glad we got the son of a bitch.

Part of me wants even more Justice (revenge) part of me says, "We won! Bring the troops home!"


H. Bruce Miller said...

"I guarantee that as soon as the glow wears off, he'll be accused of "timing" it."

No doubt, but that begs the question: Timing it for what? If he really wanted to time it he would have announced the killing of bin Laden a couple of weeks before the 2012 election.

Speaking of timing, remember how during the Bush regime videos of bin Laden would conveniently surface just before elections?

OHDG said...

conspiracies... ah yes... from people plotting to kill JFK, to townsfolk surprising Grandma for her birthday. They just don't happen I tell you!

It is all about timing and everyone is already talking about it. It is a little odd that no sooner does the White House mention OBL is dead, then within hours they also mention that the body is gone. Out of reach. Gone, gone, gone.

Like someone said before: either the people in charge are really, really stupid, or maybe they're actually trying to hide something.


I mean, to think that powerful people just MIGHT get together and have a PLAN! It DOESN'T happen. No sir! If you believe that, you're a conspiracy theorist.

And good luck trying to prove anything. Because they have all the cards.

Duncan McGeary said...

Burial at sea?

I like it, except for the pesky notion that we've eliminated the evidence.

What else could they do?

I would have flown him to the deserts of, say, Arizona, and surrounded the site with cameras.

Or take him to Antarctica, and (surreptitiously) surround the site with cameras.

No...really not much else they can do, without offending Islam.

OHDG said...

I love the excuse that it would have been difficult to find a burial for OBL. Difficult, sure. Impossible? Hardly. But they didn't even try.

Red flag.

I'm sure it would have been a tourist attraction for some, and that would bring in money for those countries... say like Yemen, or Oman.

Duncan McGeary said...

Oh, and by all means release the death pictures.

You don't have to go look. I've never looked at any sites where they show these things. It creeps me out.

Duncan McGeary said...

Couldn't they have gotten some neutral witnesses who know Bin Laden to identify the body?

Even better, some family member?

Duncan McGeary said...

It will be interesting to see if the enemy Owns it.

Yes, our leader was martyred or no, he's still alive and here's the evidence.

OHDG said...

Like any good conspiracy... each will have good points.

Pro death - They got the DNA and compared it to his sister. They even took photos of the body!

Anti-official explanation - OBL had a double like Saddam. It's also likely they lifted DNA from OBL a long time ago and used that. OBL was noted as dead many years earlier.

Both have valid points, but neither are conclusive. And that's the way it will always be with conspiracy theories, because someone is hiding something. But what exactly?

The body is gone and we all know Americans love proof. Evidence to dispel all doubt beyond a shadow.

H. Bruce Miller said...

"Pro death - They got the DNA and compared it to his sister. They even took photos of the body! Anti-official explanation - OBL had a double like Saddam. It's also likely they lifted DNA from OBL a long time ago and used that."

Occam's Razor says the simpler explanation is more likely to be the true one, so I'm inclined to reject the more elaborate theories.

Still, I wish they had produced the body. The decision to dump it in the ocean will just give all the "9/11 truthers" and other conspiracy crazies more ammunition. Surely they must have known that.

Anonymous said...

Don't worry, Donald Trump has his crack investigative team working on this.

OHDG said...

Occams' Razor accounts for only the path of least resistance as far as I'm concerned which is often true but hardly the rule.

By construct, conspiracies are going against the grain to accomplish certain outcomes. The are going against a path of resistance. By definition, any real conspiracy is convoluted. Mother nature has Occam's Razor and meddling humans have their conspiracies.

The only real conspiracies we know about are the ones that failed. Or at least only the ones that someone squealed about later. The other conspiracies, the highly successful ones, we don't know about and never will. Smart people don't brag.

As for the theories... they're a dime a dozen.

The government knows H. Bruce Miller, that you and everyone else would've liked to have seen the body. But they didn't produce it and walked right into the hands of the theorists. Stupid? Doubtful. Their only option? Probably closer to the truth.

OHDG said...

The pertinent part starts at 1:30.

Great conversation between George Carlin and Art Bell.

H. Bruce Miller said...

"Occams' Razor accounts for only the path of least resistance as far as I'm concerned which is often true but hardly the rule."

Another good principle to follow in evaluating conspiracy theories is David Hume's rule that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Claims that OBL had a double (with the same DNA), that OBL has been dead a long time and the DNA came from his corpse, etc. are quite extraordinary and require a commensurate amount of proof before I'll believe them.

Conspiracies do, indeed, happen, but my problem with many conspiracy theories is their proponents think those who disagree with them have an obligation to disprove their claims when it's really the other way around.

OHDG said...

I've mentioned earlier, I believe, that you will have a hard time proving any conspiracy, because men of power hold all the cards. And probably all the guns too...

The best you can do for yourself HBM, is to think critically. Because you and I will never have extraordinary proof even when you believe the official explanation.

I myself like to shake the ostriches who have their heads in the hole that tow the establishment line no matter what. I'm definitely not here to go rabbit hunting. But I do like to weigh both sides of the story. And that's when I learned... there's more than just two sides to the story. And that is the false dichotomy citizens of this country subscribe to.

Duncan McGeary said...

To what purpose?

What's the conspiracy here? That Obama didn't really kill Bin Laden?

I'm only surprised they haven't found him before now.

To what purpose Bush NOT killing Bin Laden? Never made him look good, that.

Suddenly, they are NOT being political?

If they didn't kill him, it'll be pretty disastrous if he pops up.

So what is this -- a conspiracy for conspiracy sake?

Trouble with conspiracy, is they seem to say that governments and individuals are hyper competent, when all evidence is to the contrary...

No...Pakistan was hiding Bin Laden, we knew it, and had to work around it and it took until now...

Matt said...

Some conspiracy theorists suggest Osama died several years ago from liver disease. The guy they've been toting around for their war effort was the double. Just like Saddam's double, you know?

I don't subscribe one way or the other. But I do know that the govt's official explanation and quick dumping of the evidence is highly suspicious, to say nothing of the timing.

Presidents mean very little to me. Nothing really changes between one administration or the next.

H. Bruce Miller said...

"I've mentioned earlier, I believe, that you will have a hard time proving any conspiracy, because men of power hold all the cards."

So the proof that a conspiracy exists lies precisely in the fact that it's so hard to prove it exists. That's a mighty neat little tautology.

Anonymous said...

let me get this straight, Osama lives in a large mansion built in 2005 with a multi-million dollar bounty on his head in a neighborhood surrounded by peasants. It takes the USA and Pakistan intelligence agencies 10 years and billions of dollars to find him. When we rub his ass out we disappear the body within hours so there can be no follow-up. Sounds plausible to me. Shit in the old days he would have been propped up on a plank surrounded by smilin' Navy Seals. Either way nothings changed, some one has already filled his shoes. Probably hand-picked by the NSA/CIA.

Anonymous said...

"As long as the general population is passive, apathetic, diverted to consumerism or hatred of the vulnerable, then the powerful can do as they please, and those who survive will be left to contemplate the outcome."
- Noam Chomsky, Is the World Too Big Too Fail

Yep, now that Obama is dead the USA will be given a UN 'license to kill' and the final solution can be applied to the masses. We live in the best of times.

Anonymous said...

I missed the debate on US international non-judicial executions. Maybe HBM can tell us when the BULLETIN had this debate?

Leitmotiv said...

My posts are a little messed up. I also posted as Matt. That's problem with having multiple emails that this site recognizes.

HBM - There is not tautology. You are the only one talking about proof and demanding it. I am not. I'm not even suggesting the conspiracy theories are true.

What I am noting though, is that the most valid and astute conspiracy theory that hits the head on the nail, will still have the trouble of providing what you call "extraordinary proof." I'm sorry, but that's impossible. Like I said in a previous post. You can't even provide it for the pro argument, so how in the hell do you think you can get it for the anti one?

So in other words, you are the one that will always reinforce what you want to see, because the proof doesn't exist and never will because in any conspiracy the truth is anything but knowable and totally murky.

You're the one demanding an awful lot. All I asked for was some critical thinking. And I suggest trying again. Or at the very least read my posts thoroughly before you respond, which you haven't done on at least two instances I see. For shame. :o)

Anonymous said...

Let's look at the conspiracy this way, the pug's were distracted by birthing for 4 years, ... it will be the same for this election, now they'll be distracted by OBL's missing corpse,
Sometime during the upcoming 'election' there will be an 'october surprise' and OREO will pull some proof out of his ass, ( pictures, corpse gases ) ...
'Conspiracy', ant's collude to move mountains of earth, ... but sheet if men in suits do the same the likes of HBM suggest it can't be done. Sheeps.
It's been long said by the likes of 'chomsky' above that the left & right are played against each other by the 4th estate ( team-hbm ). Certainly the 'tautology' of the 4th estate is that both the left&right are spoon fed shit. Then what comes out is called 'conspiracy' by team-hbm ( 4th estate ).
IMHO opinion what's wrong with what's left of the ROTTEN USA is lawyers and urnalists.
Thank god for OREO & PALIN, otherwise ameriKKKan's would already be killing each other in the streets thank god for the 4th estate to keep the masses entertained while the frog is thoroughly boiled alive.

H. Bruce Miller said...

"Maybe HBM can tell us when the BULLETIN had this debate?"

Why should I know? I haven't worked for The Bull for about 18 years.

Anonymous said...

It's fairly amazing that about one sentence into Buster's posts the words on my screen all turn to "blah blah blah blah." It saves a lot of time.

Anonymous said...

There is a god and he lives in Bend.
The peoples paradise.

A big YAWN Obama or Osama or Oreo is.

Let's get back to reality TV where we all live for real. :)

Anonymous said...

about one sentence into these comments and I know they're from buster cuz there is warm urine running down my leg :)