Friday, April 13, 2007

It's a bit of a whipsaw to go from reading these blogs and comments -- where it is an accepted fact that there has been a housing bubble, and pretty much a consensus that the bubble has begun to burst, and where the only real point of contention is the extent to which the market will fall -- to my store, where I get almost the opposite feedback.

Had yet another real estate guy yesterday, this one from the Bay Area of Cal., who works in a title company.

"There is no bubble. Bend is going to keep growing. As long as the baby boomers need to retire......" the usual line.

So I kept throwing out negative bits of information, each of which he more or less agreed with, but didn't shake his conviction that things are going great, with maybe a bit of correction. Then, out of the blue, he tells me that his company has laid off 20% of its workers. 20%.

"What would you call a burst bubble?" I finally ask.

As usual, it comes down to 'definition of terms'.

I find myself reacting to the hyperbole of the bubble bloggers by being the devil's advocate. But when I run into the the bubble deniers in my store, I become the devil's advocate from the opposite direction. Maybe I just like to dispute.

As I said in a reaction to a comment on my blog yesterday: Just for laughs, I say there is a 10 to 15% chance of a complete meltdown in the housing market. That's pretty high for a doom and gloom scenario. I wouldn't get in my car if someone told me I had a 10% chance of crashing.

I'll fix the possibility that the market will continue merrily along at the same 10 or 15%. Sure it defies common sense, but there are many things in this world, especially when it comes to people, that defy common sense. (At least my common sense._) That isn't a big enough chance for me to sell everything I got, buy a bigger house, and hope to leverage myself out of debt.

But much more likely, there is a 70 to 80% chance of something in the not so clear cut in-between grey area. It will be muddy and obscure while its going on. In hindsight it will become perfectly clear.

What I'd like to have happen is that the folk who set my rents at the stores are in line with the reality of the economic situation, not the over-inflated expectations. If Franklin Crossing, with it's 3.00 a ft rents, turns out to be an overreach, then that would be just what is needed to reinsert some reality.

On the other hand, I am a beneficiary of growth, both in my business and my home ownership. You can't really expect to me to cheer a collapse.

4 comments:

Unknown said...

There IS a bubble!

There is NOT a bubble!

Even if you can agree on a definition of the word, "bubble," you will still have to agree on the meaning of the word, "is."

LOL...

Bend Economy Man said...

It's hard for me to imagine how someone who is involved on a daily basis in the real estate world, like Duncan's title company fellow, who doesn't know there's a real estate bubble. One good thing about down cycles is that they weed out clowns who have done OK in an up cycle despite not knowing left from right.

There's always a chance that he's just trying to be a one-man propaganda machine, hoping that his denial will cast doubt on the obvious, but meanwhile he's polishing his resume.

Now that lending standards have tightened, the game has fundamentally changed. It used to be, if you wanted to buy, there was little-to-nothing stopping you from getting a mortgage and overpaying for a house: low income, bad credit, no money for a down payment or even closing costs... nothing mattered. Now it does. So desire's not enough, and no denial mechanism in the world is going to put a down payment in someone else's bank account.

You'll see this rolling snowball of real estate bad news pick up the pace anew when mortgage interest rates go up. See, despite what some people think, mortgage rates are NOT set by the government. At some point they'll have to reflect the risk that's been injected into the market by home price depreciation and increased defaults. And then, well, what the hell would have to happen to keep Bend real estate prices afloat then?

Flicka said...

Regarding your giddy visitor:

I too prefer to NOT call this a bubble, to me its a correction.

With regards to "things are great" in Bend, its the old story a recession is when your neighbor is unemployed, a depression is when your un-employed.

Bend is strange, as you can get ALL the minimum wage jobs you want here, trouble is they will NOT pay the mtg, and now the folks that didn't work and just flipped RE, are about 3-6 months from foreclosure, and 50% of IO's will reset this year, not much effect on pricing as all these home were 100% IO, so the price cannot go down.

Compared to California things do look good here, and remember for every californian in Bend, he's on vacation, as this is still paradise. Life is good.

I think the real problem here is this minimum wage issue of low employment. Bend is becoming like Arizona a "right to work state", where everyone makes $10/hr, which of course means that everyone will be living in the bush in a mobile. They'll all be working, thus no recession.

The real problem is that the BIG money will no longer becoming to down, eventually the service sector that drives all these min wage jobs hired by folks that don't want to mow their own lawns will cease. Our migrants will move on, our Californians will go back to where the good jobs are.

For folks that make $15/hr with the government, and didn't buy a house in the past five years, life is good.

I think houses around Drake Park will do just fine @250K the coming year, its the stuff outside that was built, and still being built that is going to go down to $150k, but that is also good for the min wage folk of Bend.

Even the walking dead that I talk to @ deschutes pub and bend-brewing even though they're in desperate straights they still have hope that someone will buy their outer-mongolian mc-mansion... Summer/Fall should be interesting, then again the stuff that will take I wouldn't buy, as I would never buy bend RE in the outer areas, that isn't bend. The good stuff around Drake Park will not go below $250K, which is still 1/2 the 2005 ask. Thats still ok, the folks that bought it ten years ago paid $150k, so they're not hurting.

IHateToBurstYourBubble said...

I see these people too. Most bought back in 2003 or before, they both have steady medical jobs, and they really are fine. Since they are OK, all they see is the boom, and they also bought into the deluded local presses party line that "we'll grow our way out of any problem", and all problems are small & temporary to them.