Wednesday, May 23, 2007

Back when I used to think I was competing with the big chainstores, before I realized I was a minnow swimming in an ocean of whales and sharks, I used to rail against the big, international corporations. (Well, I still do, but I don't expect anything to change.)

People used to respond with equal fervor, but after awhile I was began to realized that both conservatives and liberals hate big corporations, if not for the same reasons. It's a populous issue. So I'd find myself totally disagreeing with someone about almost every other issue we discussed, and I learned to probe a bit before I got into conversations I regretted.

I'm beginning to realize that Housing Bubble bloggers also cover a wide range of political views. Another populous issue.

What's making me uncomfortable is the bashing of Mexicans, which is sometimes coded as "Californians." To me, blaming Californicators has always been a bit of a joke. It's a state of mind, not a particular location or class of people, I object to. And as a code for "white flight", I'm completely uncomfortable.

My wife's store, the BookMark, is next to a Hispanic market.

They are up and running when we get there in the morning, and still at work when we leave at night. If there is a snowfall, they're out there clearing the snow immediately, sometimes doing our side, as well. They are constantly sweeping and spraying the parking lot. And I feel much better about them being there for the safety of my wife, they are in shouting distance, and as I said, they are always there.

They're great neighbors.

Enough with the bashing.

23 comments:

BENDBUST said...

What's making me uncomfortable is the bashing of Mexicans, which is sometimes coded as "Californians." To me, blaming Californicators has always been a bit of a joke. - duncan

**

The above is from duncan's posting as of today. First of all he doesn't allow posting, so you cannot argue his point. His point however is illiterate. It shows that he has NOT read anything, that he is re-defining everything and reducing it to classical racist arguments. Strawman logic in order to destroy the messenger.

Ok, here we go ...

1.) Nobody has bashed mexicans, had duncan bothered to read the post he would know that I have he deepest respect for hispanic people. They are the backbone of central oregon.

2.) A californian 'white-trash' folk has been defined as the get-rich-quick mercedes driving type, that is ONLY in bend to make a buck, pave our beautiful city, and go somewhere else to do the same. If the shoe fits duncan, then I can see why he doesn't like the denigration.

3.) NO WHERE has anyone in any of these forums associated the mexican with the californian. The Californian, or Californicator as I call them are only here to get rich quick and move on. The mexican is here to feed his family, whom are starving down in mexico. What part of this difference does duncan not see?

4.) If 'californians'is a pseudonym for 'mexicans' that is duncans racism, as I have never heard such a thing.

5.) One the things that folks like me paul don't do is wishy-washy talk, we say what we mean. Duncan says that 'sometimes' californian means mexican. That kind of logic is like "sometime mexican means jew". I have been waiting that one, this is where weak minded duncan is leading us.

6.) From the very beginning, I have been clear on the denigration. It is targeted towards those who are destroying Central-Oregon, and the mexican is NOT to blame. I blame the californians who I call the 'goblins', and they know who they are.

7.) I have clearly divided ALL into two camps that I call hobbits and goblins. Hobbits are slow folk that love to fish, have a brew, and love central oregon. Goblins are money grubbing parasites, and I now know for sure that duncan is one of the latter and is covering his arse.

8.) "blaming californians is a bit of a joke" - Holy shit, I think duncan has finally put on his thinking cap, one of the only reason I like paul's site is that he's funnier than hell, and I try to do the same. We have to make a joke out of all this. The only way we can ever effect the Goblins is to shame them, and thus its critical that we make an entire joke of the bend-bubble.


In summary if duncan had balls he would quit blocking his site, and I could-would post the above on his site.

love, peace, ...

IHateToBurstYourBubble said...

Yes... I'm not sure how that thread got going. My own opinion is that illegals from Mexico are being given a strange "pass" by the US government, and many US citizens. Why Mexican illegals, and not Canadians? Or any other country? It seems the only reason is that illegal Mexicans are willing to do jobs cheap, far cheaper than many Americans could possibly take for the same labor.

This just seems to setup an exploitation situation, as well as encouraging rampant illegal immigration. Legal immigrants are being punished for doing the right thing. I can only imagine what is happening to some illegals under a "You do what I say, or I call the INS" situation. This should bother everyone from a human rights standpoint.

I think there are many knee-jerk liberals who think illegals in the US are just trying to survive & make a decent life for themselves, and that we should support them. That may well be true, but I would bet many are being exploited in terrible situations. And they will NEVER get ahead here.

And there are many people in the trades around here that are being squeezed out, and I think they are rightly angry. I'm glad I'm not in a field that could really be threatened by the situation, but I'd be damn mad if I were some of those guys. Food being taken off their plates by this problem.

I came from a big midwest city practically overrun with Mexicans, legal & illegal. Like every group, some were great, some were complete jerks. Some made the best food in the World! I was friendly with a hell of a lot of them. But the ones who gained access to this country illegally should go. It's not a personal or racial or any other issue, or than a LEGAL issue. They are here ILLEGALLY. End of story.

We'll be poorer for it... and probably eat crappier food... but a country without immigration laws isn't a country. I think immigrants have achieved incredible things here (The Google guys,Andrew Grove of Intel, and many more), and this country would be far poorer w/o them. But making immigration easier is the answer, not ignoring the rampant breaking of our immigration laws. Illegals are set up for a life of low-grade misery and exploitation otherwise.

Duncan McGeary said...

Bendbust.

Maybe you need to be a bit more patient. I don't decline comments. A couple of times you have posted your entire blog on my mine, which is a little much.

Comments are welcome.

I responded over on the Bend Bubble2 blog, already.

Duncan McGeary said...

Pauldoh,

But don't you think you're derailing your argument with red flag issues? Gun Control, Abortion, Immigration. Very hot issues.

Not completely relevant, in my eyes.

IHateToBurstYourBubble said...

But don't you think you're derailing your argument with red flag issues?

Maybe. Some seem to be running away with it, and I'm just posting a response. And I do think it's relevant to the trades, which is BIG business here.

Some of the dicier stuff (general contractors are closet gays) is just the price of an open forum, I suppose.

dkgoodman said...

Californians move for a variety of reasons. To paint them all with the same brush says more of the painter than the Californians.

* Because they're "rich"
* Because they're fleeing
* Because rising prices drove them out
* Because they like it better here
* Often for the same reasons people leave Bend

Duncan McGeary said...

"....the price of an open forum..."

Long may you prosper, my friend.

Bend Economy Man said...

I think every Californian has the right to move anywhere in the USA he wants to, including Bend.

And I also think we have the right to be interested in who the newcomers are and why they're moving here. Is it really a taboo subject to suggest that many of these folks, many of whom happen to be Californians, are part of a "white flight" phenomenon?

I'm personally surprised that no one at COCC or U of O or EOU has explored the great migration to Oregon as a sociological phenomenon, or that the Central Oregon economic promoters haven't commissioned a marketing study to explore the motivations for moving here.

No, those of us who are already here are content to think "it's because this is paradise," and those who are arriving who may have certain uglier motivations are content to say, "err... yeah, you're right, it's because this is paradise."

Duncan McGeary said...

I think you make a good case that immigration is part of the phenomenon. I don't have a problem with discussing it. Just as long as we don't denigrate an entire culture in doing it. "mariachi" "brown skinned brothers" that kind of thing.

m.p.k. said...

People move to Bend from California because Oregon is cheaper and it's just as nice a place to live. It's called the "Oregon Solution" down here. Sell your million dollar little house in CA, buy a house at half the cost or less in Oregon and pocket the difference, enabling you to retire earlier. The reasoning is simple and relatively sound for those who bought in California in the 90's or before.

Duncan McGeary said...

m.p.k.

That makes perfect sense. I suppose Bendites will have the "Eastern Oregon Solution." Used to be the Idaho or Montana solution.

What I see as a long term retailer in this town is that an awful lot of business are opening in Bend that are mis-sized and mis-placed. No one will believe it until they go out of business. Which they do, one after another.

It has taught me that I wouldn't DARE open a business in another town until I had lived there for at least 5 years.

Mostly these new businesses are overshooting. Bend is still a pretty small town.

BENDBUST said...

Californians are Goblins - Oregonians are Hobbits

Regarding the California 'Silver Mercedes' that ran a girl down, and then the drivers parents helped hide the car an claim an insurance loss.

Are ALL asshole's Californian's??

I moved to Oregon in the 60's, I haven't been back to CA for forty year, but I remember it well.

Everyone in hurry, self important, they even have a word for a 'stop-sign' its called a 'california stop', where you slow down to about 25mph, near a school before you go through the intersection. If you have the audacity to actually stop at the sign folks behind you honk their horn.

Road rage in California commonly ends in gun violence.

When I moved to Orygun there were signs that said, visit but don't stay.

Our Oregon fore-fathers were smart ol bastards, they weren't politically correct. They knew that californian's were a fester, a canker sore, a cancer of the worst kind. They're in Bend and they're breeding.

The silver mercedes is simply a product spawn of his/her parents, they can be found near Drake Park everyday drugged out while their parents whore at the local RE or MTG shop.

Bend is a Gold Rush town Just like the 1849's, trouble is the Gold is Gone, and its going to take awhile for the carpet baggers to figure this one out.

There is NOTHING wrong with calling a Californian what he/she is, its an Orygun Tradition.

Oregonians are like Hobbits we're gentle folk and NOT in a hurry, almost ALL californians are Goblins.

The politically correct crowd in Bend may say its NOT PC to tell the truth, but the truth is that MOST folks from CA are Goblins, and they Spawn more Goblins.

What in the hell does this have to do with the Bend Bubble, a lot actually, these Californians are what caused and created the Bubble { Real Estate Overheat Insanity }.

There is a political correct movement in Bend that says nobody should be offended, that its not right to suggest that Californian's are evil, but the facts speak for themselves, and for generations Oregonians didn't want Oregon Californicated, and of course this is exactly what has happened to Bend.

Our current leaders have Californicated Central Oregon.

BENDBUST said...

I don't block my site, only edit. As long as you don't post the entire contents of your blog on mine, which I think is rude, you're welcome to comment.

Ed Flanders,

.....................................

Dear Mr. Flanders,

Sorry to hear that you had been imprisoned in the latest Simpsons Movie. I support you, and firmly believe that Lisa made up entire sodomy story.

How are the kids? The wife doesn't believe lisa does she?? The Church? Is baby Jeezus and Dubya still talking to you while you pray? Is baby jeezus still going to give the californians more of a 'grace' period so they can get out of dodge with a shirt and a car??

Let me understand, you don't censor post's on your site, you haven't banned anonymous postings, and you don't moderate anything that you find offensive to yourself??

I highly suggest that both YOU and bendbb open up your site, just like paul does and let the good word flow.

My site bendbubble.blogspot.com is wide open, if you find something offensive just ignore it.

sincerley, Krusty

{ Do I have to be Krusty, I see myself as a Bart, please Ned let me be bart }

BENDBUST said...

You know what, BendBust? At least Duncan posts his name for all to know, and everyone knows where he works and what he does. How about you? What's your name? Who do you work for? So keep spewing your hate and posting your tiresome crap about hobbits and goblins, but have the balls to put a name to it. - ned flanders

**

I have begged duncan { ned flanders } for a longtime, not to mix his business and politics. This is a terminally stupid practice. Like today where he's "shocked that bubble followers have diverse political opinions".

ALL businessmen know you don't mix business, and politics as you'll always piss off a customer. In todays environment you cannot afford to piss anyone off, so its always best if you want to be an muck-racker to be anonymous, Duncan is NOT a muck-racker he is a city-of-bend ass-kisser, so I guess it all works for him.

Duncan or Ned whatever his name is should have a public blog for his ego, and a political blog where he can say what he thinks, I have never seen him say what he thinks, he prefers to elucidate what he thinks others think. He has mentioned many times that he should run for office, so me thinks this stupidity is all calculated, e.g. he wants his name to be a household item, to me this is a sickness of the ego.

My belief is that anonymity is essential to saying what you think, and not pissing off your nieghbors like duncan who you know to be hypocrits.

In summary, duncan is in the comic-book biz, a discretionary biz that will be the first to go, when spending is cut, he depends on tourists like sisters depends on tourists to buy cotton candy. This is not a good business model. The fact that he is stupid enough to put his name and his business on his blog is pathetic, and can only be some kind of strange obsession with his ego, like he wants to be known, for his protecting Bend from the bubble-tormentors.

We all can do things as we wish, I still say Duncan has NO balls, and just because he's stupid enough to put his name and business on his blog is no proof he has balls.

This is just a BAD business practice, you don't see any other rational businessman in Bend doing this.

Duncans blog is simply a "dear diary" and why someone would want to publicly display their diary with their name it I find weird, real weird.

Michael said...

BendBust, your posts come off as long winded, histrionic and bigoted. If most Californians are the way you say they are, I guarantee YOU will fit right in with them!

In case you didn't notice, the entire country (including California) has been riding a housing bubble, not just Bend. Other countries, such as Australia, as well. Low interest rates made it possible.

It may be psychologically convenient for you to think you've found the devil, but your posts are more indicative of your own character than anything else, and offer little insight into the situation.

m.p.k. said...

BendBust, forty years away from California must not be long enough. Instead of escaping what you didn't like you just carried it with you. Was it really them or was it you? You wear your ignorance like it's a badge of honor. Your posts come off as long winded, histrionic and bigoted, so by your own definitions, you must be Californian yourself!

The entire country has been riding a housing bubble, prices have doubled in California. Other countries, such as Australia, as well saw similar unsustainable gains. Low interest rates made it possible.

It may be psychologically convenient for you to think you've found the devil, but your posts are more indicative of your own character than anything else, and offer little insight into the situation.

Pearl2Lotus said...

Yes, m.t.k., I too found it humorous that bendbust’s rants come off as angry and downright unkind as he/she claims all those horrible Californians are. Such an atrabilious nature must be hard to live with. And I say he/she, because as someone else pointed out, bendbust rants anonymously, spouting bile without backing it up with a name. Balls, indeed.

Duncan McGeary said...

I probably don't need to say it, but any message posted by me will be posted under my name.

Duncan McGeary said...

Oh, and since someone has taken to writing posts under the name 'Ned Flanders' over at the New Bend Economy Board, I'd like to make it clear that I don't post ANYWHERE except under my own name.

Bend Economy Man said...

Yes, m.t.k., I too found it humorous that bendbust’s rants come off as angry and downright unkind as he/she claims all those horrible Californians are.

Pearl2Lotus, I see where Bendbust is coming from. I think what we're talking about here isn't about having positive qualities, but preserving a place and a way of life.

A lot of what made Oregon the attractive place it is now can be looked at as negative qualities: distrust of outsiders, fear of diversity, being stuck in one's ways, not being willing to use resources to the greater economic use, an unwelcoming attitude, etc.

And a lot of what makes California a place from which many want to flee are good human traits: an enterprising, entrepreneurial attitude; iconoclasty; outward friendliness.

The reason why Oregon changed its unwelcoming attitude is because out of the three former pillars of its economy (forest products, fishing, agriculture), two have been kicked away. Tourism was always a part of the Oregon economy, but not a huge part. Real estate speculation and development and a dependence on people moving in with money have never been a big part. People used to move in with what they had and started working - in the woods, on boats, on farms, and even in mines in some places.

With much of the former basis for their economy gone, Oregonians have realized there's money to be made promoting their home as paradise and attracting new arrivals. Oregonians are not dumb and realize that eventually the paradise will be spoiled. However, we as a state need to put food on the table and we're not a state of cutting-edge brainiacs who are going to build a better mousetrap. Selling land, building houses and marketing our hometowns are the things we've learned to do to make ends meet. Doesn't mean we're happy about it.

Duncan McGeary said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Duncan McGeary said...

The deletion was me. Suddenly, I can't spell.

It would be interesting to know how long people have lived here. I know that comments about moving out of Bend because of what's happening are foreign to me. I've lived in Bend for 49 years.
I'm a Bendite through and through.


I can't imagine that business could ever get as bad as it was from 1982- 1986. That was as bad as it gets.

But I've also had business drop in half at other times in my store simply because what I'm selling stopped selling. I'm pretty sure I know how to weather most storms, nowadays. I'm almost a specialist in bubbles.... Not that it would be fun.

I've been a beneficiary of the boom, though not as much as I'd like because of the increase of costs of doing business in downtown Bend. Still, I prefer this to what was happening in the mid-1980s. Empty streets, a u-haul in every other drive-way. Burns would be the closest example.

So, I've benefited from it....but I'm conflicted!

m.p.k. said...

Bend Economy Man-
You can't justify BendBust's idiotic comments with "Preserving a place and a way of life". The guy is exactly what he claims to dislike from California, a profiteering landlord. What makes Bend so special that it should be immune to change? No where I've lived has stayed the same. Construction has continued, prices have risen all over the west coast. I've lived in California the past seven years and watched prices double, making home ownership completely out of reach for the vast majority of first time buyers. They live in apartments. Many of them plan to move someday to somewhere with more opportunity. Some people made a bundle off the housing bubble, meanwhile many many people in many areas suffer from the outrageous prices. This isn't something that just happened to Bend, it happened all over the place.