Sunday, October 7, 2007

I'd love to be able to take the Bulletin's article on Bend's economic growth at face value. Nothing would be better for my business than the picture they paint. But it's almost like I've been trained by past articles to look for the hidden darkside.

The most obvious problem is that it talks about the growth in the GDP from '01 to '05, which I'm afraid is a little like talking about the stock market growth from 1925 to 1929 -- when its 1931.
A glimpse into the bubble isn't going to tell us much about what's happening today, is it? It's the past. What's likely to happen in the future?

Secondly, I've never had much doubt we were attracting some wealthy people to Bend. How much of the GDP is attributable to the wealth they brought with them, even the wealth that was created because of the wealth they brought with them? That is, can they sustain that wealth now that they actually live in Bend? I think that remains to be seen. I sure hope so.

Will they leave if they can't sustain that level of growth? I doubt most of them will, which means that most of them will have to accustom themselves to a different level of growth and sustainability. If they can sustain even a major portion of that wealth, then Bend will have accomplished a transformation that will be in the textbooks. It's possible, but not likely.

Meanwhile, a third of the job growth in Bend is housing related industries. I suspect it is much higher than that, not to mention how many jobs are dependent on the money generated by those relatively high paying jobs. (I'm not clear, for instance, if financial services are included in that third, if not they should be.) I suspect that much of that work is in abeyance, and that we'll see a pretty high layoff rate in that group.

My guess is that much of the GDP that the economists are talking about is churned money, brought in from the outside. If you bring 10k from somewhere else, and enter it into the Bend economy, that enters into the GDP growth. But is it generating any money, or just being used up and spit out.? Because I think that if Bend has a genius industry, it's taking other people's money and creating buildings like the Old Cigar Building (a beautiful corpse) and letting birds of a feather lose their money together.

25 comments:

Duncan McGeary said...

I have to say, too, that I'm skeptical of many of the small businesses who say they make their money off the internet, and/or telecommute, and/or work from home. I'm probably talking to the most intensive internet crowd on this blog, so I'm sure that many of you are doing it. But the average person, I think, finds it difficult.

Every single one of the people over the years who have come in and told me, for instance, that they were going to make their living on E-bay, the next time I saw them were working again.

In other words, a local economy which depends on a higher percentage of home commutes, is an indicator of weakness not strength

The same with people who move to Bend and open businesses. I always ask them questions, and what I find is most of them haven't done their research. To say, for instance, that Bend is so much more affordable than where they came from, they need to look at the relativity of it all. If 350k median houses look cheap to them, are they aware of the average wages in Bend? So if houses are twice that much where they came from, are they aware if averages wages are also twice, or even more?

I always look at the averages. You want to open a business in Bend? Check the industry averages. Say you want to open a Quilt Shop. Google up the industry average, and it will tell you if the population of Bend is likely to earn you a living wage. If you can't find an industry average, it may mean the industry is too damn small for Bend, anyway.

If you have a highly paid professional job, what is the industry average? Is it one lawyer per 1000, and Bend had one lawyer per 500, are you willing to to duke it out, or willing to accept half as much money.

Because, in my opinion, people come to Bend with big money and plans, and Bend won't support them in it.

Anonymous said...

Boy duncan you have become very cynical in the last few days. What brought this on? You say its taxes, but all that's do right now is quarterly employment estimates and filings.

*

That is, can they sustain that wealth now that they actually live in Bend? I think that remains to be seen. I sure hope so.

*

I know lots of nouveau riche in Bend, and they're all high-tech stock option folk from pre-2001, there money is fixed, and they're ALL spending their capital quicker than the rate of return. Most will be out in Ten years, then they either have to go back to work or downsize their bend mcMansion @ BT, or High@BT, ...

Most I know moved here in the last five years with their stock option money, with the idea that they were going to make 30%/yr by buying a $2M home high on the westside, that was going to $5M by 2007, and their CPA told them so.

In my humble opinion having $5M from stock options, and spending $2M on a bend home burning $250k/yr on lifestyle is NOT rich, its temporal stupidity. These people could have bought a little $250k inner bend, and got 5% on the $5M, and still had $250k/yr for life, but NOOOOOOOOO, they had to put most of their money into Bend RE, because they were greedy.

In summary, this wealthy thing is BULLSHIT, most of the wealth in Bend was put into RE, a deep black hole, just like all the dot-com stocks that went to zero post Y2K. Money completely lost.

Yes, Bend is genius, a place where high tech calis brought their winnings, and lost them, and the genius is that to this day, Bend keeps bringing the suckers in.

Anonymous said...

The ebay works is quite simple, if you have something to sell and its paid for, and you willing to take -10% of wholesale, then it will sell, otherwise forget it.

Now this is fine for an old bike or kayak in the garage that's not used, but lets say you go into business, how in the hell can you buy wholesale and sell -10%??? You cannot, and this is the end of the story.

Sure once and awhile on the internet you might find a stupid person to pay retail, or a 10% over wholesale, but the majority of the buyers on the internet, and this is mainly ebay are looking for -10% of wholesale or better.

There's enough folks continually going out of business, to create a continual sale of such liquidation,

Duncan McGeary said...

I don't think I've changed my tune. I think we're in a very dangerous phase in the cycle, where it's possible to lose lots of money, and almost impossible to make money. So I'm a bit more strident, perhaps, because I see a widening separation between perception and reality.

Small businesses have until Oct. 15, to finish their taxes.

Anonymous said...

Bend is about exceptional-ism, everyone thinks they're special, their @home telecommute job is secure, their business is exceptional, bend is exceptional. Of course we all know this isn't true, but the majority of folks in Bend think that Bend is exceptional, and that they are exceptional.

I don't think you can get more deluded than Bend, there's going to be an ugly wake-up call on the horizon.

*

The end of history is alive and well in Bend, read the BULL and time didn't exist prior to 2001, and time doesn't exist past 2005. All will continually talk of the glory days forever, just like old fat high school football players, the best of days in Bend were 2001->2005, and that's always going to be the benchmark, and rationale, and example of what Bend is all about.

An old washed up athlete likes to say "better to have been a has been, then has not", while today he's a poor lard-ass, doesn't matter he had his day, and Bend will continue to dwell on the past for a long time. Bend had its day, they conned a lot of people to borrow money and build mcMansions in Bend and freely spend HELOC money.

Brooks Resources saw the easy money coming, and built the home, and sold the dreams. Sebastian came here also at the right time to catch the wave. Now the tide is out, and you can see who has their shorts, and who doesn't. The tide will stay out for a long time.

Today Bend is talking of starting its own bank to support JUMBO, as nobody will loan jumbo, and bend is ONLY jumbo. Who in the hell are they going to sell this paper to?? This is the most stupid new issue in the world a portfolio of Bend Jumbo Real Estate, lose money, lots of money quickly. Nobody except GOVERNMENT money will touch such a stupid investment.

In bend all homes will go down to and/or below $250k, and JUMBO will be un-sellable. ( +$420k, unless the buyer has cash ).

Anonymous said...

Small businesses have until Oct. 15, to finish their taxes.

*

Oh, duncan I didn't even consider that one, your on the double extension, extension program. ....

I started paying others to do my taxes 30+ years ago for this reason, that I always waited to the OCT15, drop-dead time.

Now my taxes are always done by January, by someone who likes that shit.

Duncan McGeary said...

Nobody thinks it's going to happen to them....including me. But one thing I've learned about bubble's popping, no one involved is unaffected.

And unfortunately for Bend, we're all involved in the Bend bubble just by living here.

It seems really clear to me that there is less work, therefore less money going around. And that has to affect my retail store.

If I'm prepared, it will hurt less. But as I always say, knowing that someone is going to sock you in the jaw doesn't mean it won't hurt.

Duncan McGeary said...

I made the following comment on Bendbubble2:

I'm beginning to believe that the retail, commercial and industrial aspects of Bend are as much a bubble as the housing.

If so, the industrial land leasing prices are greed and speculation, just as the high rent rates downtown and -- I've come to find out -- everywhere else in Bend, including run down stretches of 3rd Street. Rents are crazy, housing prices are crazy, and industrial land rates are crazy, and I do believe they are all going to implode.

SO the city and county officials should DO NOTHING! Sit back and let it all be. Really, that's the best thing they could do.

Because I think trailer parks will go back to being trailer parks, and industrial land will appear like magic, and the landlords won't be in much of a hurry to evict tenants. And there will be plenty of housing husks for low income.

Problem solved.


Really, I'm serious. If Bend was my business, I would do nothing. I'd wait to see what developed. Because I believe that whatever they local officials are likely to come up with would be a boondoggle, a waste of money. Pie in the Sky.

Saying that Juniper Ridge is our savior? What the fuck? So we hold our breath for the next number of years waiting for Juniper Ridge?

I think the wonders of capitalism are going to solve our problems, not governnment action.

And I'm a liberal.

Anonymous said...

And unfortunately for Bend, we're all involved in the Bend bubble just by living here.

*

I agree, this is why I stress the common man, and note the "I have mine, I'm good crowd" is in a for big surprise.

The fact is crime will sky-rocket, homes will be broken into for food and beer. Gas will be siphoned from your car nightly,

Folks will get mugged, its not good to live in a place where 25% are un-employed and starving, you may have something to share, but try go to Africa, its doesn't matter how much you pack or bring, you'll run out on day-one. It will be that way in Bend, there will be so much suffering and there is nothing you'll be able to do.

Then there are those that bought in gated community's, and have their 'Redmond black-water' police force for security, these folks will live in fear, their will be shopping service so they don't have to put their face in town.

The veneer of civilization of very thin, and almost all of Bend is image, look at the cop a month ago that was doing 120MPH on Santiam on his motorcycle, the cops of Bend are above the law, once things go to shit, Bend will be like "Road Warriors", with the cops taking what they want. Just like Iraq the cops will be above the law, and courts will let them do as they wish, so long as they protect the court.

Duncan McGeary said...

I think the veneer will be maintained, even at the worst. People will settle into a quietly desperate existence....

Anonymous said...

I think the veneer will be maintained, even at the worst. People will settle into a quietly desperate existence....
*
The veneer of desperate yuppy perhaps, but their spawn on METH, like rats will multiply in Drake Park, and seek the darkness by night.
You cannot have 25% un-employment, and not have crime.

The cali spawn, is spoiled, like the kid that ran down the bicyclist a few months ago, and family helped hide the car and crime. These folks exist in Bend, and they'll become un-employed, and their spawn urchin will crawl the streets in the dark of night for fuel, or whatever they can find.

Been there, seen it before, ...

Bend will NOT be the hap-happy-place of $20/each bacon-tempura at the DEEP, there will be anger, a lot of the SUV's and NICE beamers and mercedes will get keyed, ... The thing with equity/amenity parasites is as long as they get theirs for nothing they're happy, but cut it off, and they'll steal and kill for it quickly. Bend attracted these kinds of people 2X, and they're not going to move on, unless they're are forcefully shown the door.

My point here is that folks that say the BUBBLE will not effect them are wrong, you will ALL be very affected.

Duncan McGeary said...

Ah, well then. The gated communities will have a purpose after all.

Duncan McGeary said...

I posted the following on the Bendbubble2. (I don't deny I love to hear myself talk...why else would I have a blog, eh?)

Timothy said,

"There are very many commercial spaces for lease. Very, very many."

The problem for me is that isn't the perception yet. Especially downtown. And unfortunately, the perception of the lease-rate-setter is what counts.

I have a matrix I've come up with.

1. High reality, low perception.
This is the best time to get involved, because no one knows its happening yet.

2. High reality, high perception. Still a good time to be involved, but start looking to get out.

3. Low reality, high perception.
The absolute worst time to be involved. A double negative whammy. In this case, landlord has perception of high results, and you are actually suffering low results.

4. Low reality, low perception. AT least you're both in the real world. Good time to start, if you think number one is coming around.

I'm very afraid of being in the third stage when it comes time to renew my lease. So if things are going to go to hell, it's better for me that perception be changed sooner rather than later. If we can stay in number two, that's o.k. too. Number one isn't going to roll around again soon, if it ever did. Number four is probably the best I can hope for.

Duncan McGeary said...

Oh, I'm sure there are individual landlords who get it, or who will get it.

But unless I want to move, the only landlord who matters is mine.

There is going to be a logjam on rents, because most landlords set rents based on comparables -- so it will take a majority of landlords to not only get it, but act on it, and a then a record of that.

That is going to take a long time.

My landlord lives out of town, I believe. Who knows what he's hearing? He uses a professional leasing service who in the past has gone the going rate, minus a bit for my longevity.

So it's going to take either a very severe crash, or a long slow one, or an enlightened landlord.

Because up to now, in downtown Bend, they can rent my area of town. Rent to viable businesses?

They probably just can't know that.

IHateToBurstYourBubble said...

Saying that Juniper Ridge is our savior? What the fuck?

Boy duncan you have become very cynical in the last few days.


What the WHAT? Ohhhh... you're getting at least a little jaded Dunc... I've not heard THAT sort of language from you before... IT BOMBARDS THE SENSES!

I'd love to be able to take the Bulletin's article on Bend's economic growth at face value... it's almost like I've been trained by past articles to look for the hidden darkside.

This is what you get when you lie PATHOLOGICALLY to your readers: INSTANT AND LONG-LASTING SKEPTICISM ABOUT ANYTHING YOU REPORT.

And this sort of backward looking Good News Story is exactly what I said would be The Bulletins mainstay once the crap hit the fan. It'll continue for a long time.... recounting The Glory Years just like Uncle Rico...

IHateToBurstYourBubble said...

Meanwhile, a third of the job growth in Bend is housing related industries. I suspect it is much higher than that, not to mention how many jobs are dependent on the money generated by those relatively high paying jobs. (I'm not clear, for instance, if financial services are included in that third, if not they should be.)

Yeah, I noticed they broke out "Real Estate" and "Construction" into separate categories. Huh? I'll bet 95% of "Business Services" is Realtors or Mortgage Brokers. I think much was done to ILLUSTRATE how little Cent OR economy is dependent on real estate!

Yeah! The Housing Bubble Will Only Have Minimal, If ANY, Effect On Bend! Woo Hoo!

Duncan McGeary said...

You were right on in your prediction. That plus, 'it's happening everywhere else in the country,' and 'we're just getting back to normal.'

Duncan McGeary said...

The fuck you talkin' about!

I figure if they've read that far down the comments, they can handle it.

Duncan McGeary said...

I wonder how much of the manufacturing growth was housing related, too. Because otherwise, I can't think of what would account for such an increase.

Duncan McGeary said...

This may sound strange after all I've written. But I was never fully convinced we were going to have a meltdown in Central Oregon. A strong possibility, yes. But I also thought there was a chance we'd escape it. Or that it would be a 'soft' landing.

Despite everything I know about bubbles.

To change my business too radically every time the wind shifts is a ninny strategy. I could hedge a bit, reduce my exposure to the future by cutting back pre-orders.

But I'm now convinced in the pit of my stomach that it's going to get really scary.

I'm still hoping to have Christmas this year, because I think the majority is still somewhat oblivious, but next year....?

All bets are off. Time to hunker down. Try to react to day to day business, instead trying to guess in advance.

Fortunately, I have more of a margin of error than I've ever had, by quite a bit. But I was hoping that would be profit, not just hanging on.

Still, to try to make lemonade. If I manage to hold my margins a bit, keep my dept down, even have a little cash, I'll be in much better shape to take advantage of the bottom, and on the way up.

There was just a few days over the last month or so that concerned me. Not just slower, but way slower in customers. In the end, made a bit of money on those days, but they felt off, like it wouldn't have taken much to have no money come in at all.

I've learned to trust those feelings.

Anonymous said...

But I'm now convinced in the pit of my stomach that it's going to get really scary.

*

We talk a lot of shit, and I worry most about the crime and suffering. People will pull together, and it will NOT be any worse than the past. Especially with the mobility now. Once the shit hits the fans, and I do expect it soon. I have long predicted that by xmas of this year the BULL itself would start laying off, because advertising will plummet.

We have ALL been through this before, and as I have always said it was the best of times. Remember we can all go back to fishing, and huntin chip-munks, and doing the simple shit in life.

I worry about crime. If people stick together and watch each others back things will be fine. Its the high rollers that will get the worst, the city will continue to screw itself, but we don't control them.

All we can do is prepare ourselves, and be ready for reality. I know in my neighborhood, most are old-timers,we all watch each others house, ... I worry more about downtown, and how the unemployed cockroaches will effect the beautiful, I think that's why in previous months the city-council tried to ban pan-handling in Bend city limits, they see it coming, and they don't want the unemployed to be visible.

Anonymous said...

I was never fully convinced we were going to have a meltdown in Central Oregon.

*

Even -75% is NOT a meltdown, its a healthy correction. Even if homes fall back to $120k at the 1998 basis, things will be fine.
It's only those that bought in the past ten years that thought they were getting a 'steal' that are going to get hosed, and like you said this is more an act of quiet desperation.

The real problem is that city-hall is made RE sales in #1 24/7/365 mission, and its going to take a long time to purge city hall, and get back folks who know how to run a government.

Look at the most recent 450 who signed the Juniper Ridge letter, nine prior mayors told the incumbents they were on the wrong path, overnight we're going to go back to being 'mayberry' after five years of being 'rodeo drive', and hopefully all the calis will leave once they realize that Bend is Mayberry.

I already see in my hood prices that were high in 2006 of $495k, can now be had for $250k, and I can see $120k coming, but again, most in MY HOOD paid $15k in the 70's, nobody is going to move, nobody played the game,

The real interesting issue is OUR city is dependent upon BIG tax base, and they have ALL these new buildings and debt, and the WHOLE model was based on 30%/yr growth forever to pay for everything, thus watching city-hall adjust to reality and purging the con-artists is going to be painful, but once they realize the money really is GONE, they too will exit by a UHAUL at 1AM.

Duncan McGeary said...

Am I being a 'doom and gloomster' just to hear myself talk? Out of a sense of Schadenfruede? (Or however you spell it...)

If anything, I think I've held back a bit because I was afraid of being perceived a chickenlittle.

If anything, what I'm seeing and hearing with my own eyes is more than enough to alarm me.

I really wouldn't mind being wrong. I'd rather take a hit to my ego than to my wallet.

But my business depends on me making good decisions. If I were to make a bet on growth continuing, I could lose a lot of money. If I make a bet the other direction, I may lose money I could've made.

Up to now, I've just tried to be careful. To be watchful.

But the more I drive around and see the insanity of all the subdivisions and houses for sale, the more I'm inclined to believe it is going to be every bit as bad as my instincts tell me.

Bad to me, is a drop in sales.

That's it. Cause that's how I make my living.

Duncan McGeary said...

Sure it's fun to wallow in the doom and gloom of Armeggeden. There is an undeniable appeal to pointing out the Emperor has no Cloths. But that isn't the main reason I do it. I'm mostly just really curious about human behavior. How can something that seems so clear to me, be so unclear to others?

It seemed so utterly, undeniably obvious that there was a housing bubble. And it seems utterly, undeniably obvious that the consequence of a bubble burst are going to be painful and prolonged, especially in Bend where the bubble was biggest. I'm fascinated by how different people can look at the same factors and come to different conclusions. (Or, in most cases, not look at the facts at all.)

I had a friend in high school who told me that the definition of a crazy person was that he/she thought he/she was always right. I happen to think that's a lousy definition of crazy, but it certainly defines a fool.

So I try to stay mindful that I could.....just possibly.....be wrong. So I try to look at it from every direction. I try to pick holes in my own argument.

I try to gather evidence. Accurate, up to date evidence.

For example. I thought we were in the midst of a bubble back in 1995, and had a growing conviction I was right through 1996, but almost no one else I talked to thought so. When I found the Bendbubbleblog, it was a breath of fresh air.

But still, my customers, almost every single one, didn't think there was a bubble; they seemed confused that I would even ask the question. The people I most listened to were the people in the building trade. And up until the beginning of this summer, none of them showed the slightest concern.

Over the summer that changed. Slowly, but surely, almost with every visit, they started telling me things that confirmed my suspicions. Jobs falling through, projects being delayed, the other guys quitting.

So now, I have my original instincts. (Based on the steep curve of growth -- I'm mistrustful of any growth rate higher than 10% a year, no matter what it is.)

Now we have the actual statistics. Taken raw, without editorializing, they are pretty stark.

And now I have the eye witness evidence from people involved in the trade who have no reason to lie.

The final straw for me has been my little jaunts around town, and the sheer mass of For Sale signs I'm seeing.

The other thing I'm looking at is the reaction of the so-called experts.

Back in 1987, I used to still watch Wall Street in Review. I still had a faith in experts. The Friday after the October crash, I watched the experts being interviewed, and they looked...well, scared to death. And I realized with a flash that they had no more idea what was going to happen the following Monday than I did. Of course, by the next Friday they were all cocky smiles and confidence, but I'd seen what I'd seen.

What I'm seeing in the experts around here is that same deer in the headlight's look; a few have total confidence, but they probably are fools, but many of them obviously don't know what to do. They thought they were going to brazen their way through a downturn! Confidence always worked before....and now they have no plan B.

So that's it for me. I think Bend's housing situation is going to suck, and retail will probably follow. I have to make business decisions based on what I think, but mostly....mostly, I'm just really curious to see if I'm right.

Bend Economy Man said...

Am I being a 'doom and gloomster' just to hear myself talk? Out of a sense of Schadenfruede? (Or however you spell it...)

If anything, I think I've held back a bit because I was afraid of being perceived a chickenlittle.


I think that part of it is that some people would rather be surprised that things turn out better than they expected, rather than the other way around. The "hope for the best, plan for the worst" types.

And during an investment bubble everything going on around you seems to fly in the face of your (OK, our) worldview. In times like those, the incautious, the uninformed, the gullible, the reckless and the intellectually dishonest are making money hand over fist. Meanwhile, the thrifty, the savers, the long-term planners, the ones who know their history, the look-before-you-leapers fall farther and farther behind.

So I wouldn't call it Schaddenfreude. I'd call it relief at seeing the world return to what we recognize as normal - where the values we were raised with are rewarded.